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bjrichus
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Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:28 am

In case anyone wants to see the actual words used by the House Judicial Committee rather than anything edited or third hand via the media, this is the actual letter sent to POTUS #45 indicating that an investigation is now underway.

I am told by my friends in DC (I have a relative who works for a certain Republican senator and a friend who is on staff elsewhere) that several on the left are saying that this lays the predicate for impeachment based on Trump "violating the law and his oath of office" in this matter (nothing to do with Russia etc). Whatever your personal view about if he did or did not, they are looking for this to go there. The next month or three will be "interesting" if only to see in real time how the concept of "Presidential Overreach" is interpreted (re-interpreted even).

Hope this link works - if it doesn't, I'll upload the PDF somewhere ....

https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democ ... inal_0.pdf
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gailjean
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Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:20 pm

The link works, BJ. Very enlightening.

Thank you for providing it. It is refreshing to get information directly, and not filtered and massaged by whomever.
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Pete
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:54 am

While, as noted elsewhere, I am firmly in support of much better boarder security - to include additional/improved physical barriers where needed and practical - I'm am not a fan of setting a "national emergency" precedent in this instance.

Though, the liberal resistance to physical barriers seems to be more "anti-Trump" than anti-barriers - noting that most voted for 700-miles of barriers several years ago - that are still incomplete.
Cheers, Pete
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PensacolaKid
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:03 am

It is absolutely about hating Trump, Pete. I said this during this latest election. I said, "you watch, the Dem's will do absolutely nothing , zero to help him or approve anything he wants. They hate him and they want to see him fail.

No one will be impeached. No one will go to jail. No one will be fined. It is all a circus with a bunch of clowns.

BUILD THE WALL. GO PRESIDENT TRUMP. TRUMP FOR 2020!!

Btw...the left's messiah, Barry....if I am not mistaken, he declared 8 or 9 national emergencies. Hypocrisy at it's ugliest. That is who they are tho.
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bjrichus
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:26 am

gailjean wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:20 pm
The link works, BJ. Very enlightening.

Thank you for providing it. It is refreshing to get information directly, and not filtered and massaged by whomever.
Exactly my motivation in posting this.

We rarely bother to find the actual words used by one side, and are often lazy and hear or read filtered 'comments' from media outlets with bias and built-in agendas. This is true no matter what one may feel about the individual or personal perspective of events.
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gailjean
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:54 am

PensacolaKid wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:03 am
It is absolutely about hating Trump, Pete. I said this during this latest election. I said, "you watch, the Dem's will do absolutely nothing , zero to help him or approve anything he wants. They hate him and they want to see him fail.

No one will be impeached. No one will go to jail. No one will be fined. It is all a circus with a bunch of clowns.

BUILD THE WALL. GO PRESIDENT TRUMP. TRUMP FOR 2020!!

Btw...the left's messiah, Barry....if I am not mistaken, he declared 8 or 9 national emergencies. Hypocrisy at it's ugliest. That is who they are tho.
Time for my meme? :lol: :lol: :lol:

FYI National Emergencies - read up on them so you will be more knowledgeable, specifically about how they work. Here's a link, not that you will read it: https://apnews.com/03d60f47b89d49139d948fec0deeadaf

The bolding within the article below is mine.

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s plan to declare a national emergency to free up money for his border wall would be an extraordinary step, despite his statement that predecessors liberally used such power.

The White House said Thursday that Trump plans to go ahead with the declaration as part of his effort to direct money unilaterally to wall construction, because Congress agreed to give him far less than he demanded in the deal averting another government shutdown.

It’s a contentious move, likely to be legally challenged, and not something presidents routinely do, contrary to his rhetoric:

TRUMP: “You know, we already have national emergencies out there. You know, President Obama, President Clinton, President Bush — they’ve declared many national — this is not unique. They’ve declared many national emergencies. Many, many.” — remarks at a Cabinet meeting Tuesday.

THE FACTS: The emergency action would be rare. The presidents he cites did not use emergency powers to pay for projects that Congress wouldn’t support.
Emergency declarations by Obama, Bush and Clinton were overwhelmingly for the purpose of addressing crises that emerged abroad. Many blocked foreign interests or terrorist-linked entities from access to funds. Some prohibited certain imports from or investments to countries associated with human rights abuses.

“It’s extremely rare for a president to declare a national emergency in a bid to fund domestic construction projects, particularly one that Congress has explicitly refused to fund,” said Andrew Boyle, an attorney in the national security program at the Brennan Center for Justice. “The ones that former presidents declared are of a different sort.”

With Congress unwilling to give Trump anything close to the $5.7 billion he wants to build a portion of the border wall, he had suggested for some time that he would find money elsewhere, whether with an emergency declaration or by other means.

He might find some support from several laws passed in the 1980s. One says that in a declared national emergency requiring the use of the armed forces, the defense secretary can shuffle military construction dollars that have been approved by Congress to construction projects that were not specifically authorized.

Another allows approved Army civil works money to be shuffled similarly to a new purpose.

The presidents Trump referred to did not undertake such projects.

Altogether, Clinton declared 17 national emergencies, Bush, 13, and Obama, 12, according to a list compiled by the Brennan Center .
The Brennan Center has tracked 58 emergency declarations back to 1978, of which 31 remain in effect.

Obama’s emergency declarations were aimed at blocking access to property of “certain persons” involved in crises abroad — Ukraine, Burundi, Venezuela, Central African Republic, South Sudan, Yemen, and Libya, among other countries. He also used the declarations to punish the Russian government and transnational organizations.

His only declaration not centered on foreign interests came in 2009, when he declared a national emergency to deal with the H1N1 flu pandemic.

Bush and Clinton were similarly focused on foreign crises in their declarations. Clinton used one to prohibit transactions with the Taliban in 1999; Bush issued several in response to the 2001 terrorist attacks.
___
Associated Press researcher Jennifer Farrar in New York contributed to this report.
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bjrichus
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:25 am

gailjean wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:54 am
Obama’s emergency declarations ...
One might suggest that Obama was either relatively ineffective as he didn't (or couldn't) resort to as many emergency declarations as the others or he was more effective as a president as he didn't need to resort to them as much as the others did.

I know we will get two or three other forum members responding to that observation :D but it just goes to show how we can all interpret these things differently.

What is key in that AP article is this quote: "The presidents he cites did not use emergency powers to pay for projects that Congress wouldn’t support." It'll be interesting to see if the Senate and the House vote together on this to deny the President his funding and how they proceed if they are without the majority they need to deny opportunity for him to veto.

As the Chinese would say "We live in interesting times".
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Linda
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Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:49 pm

Thanks for the document, BJ. People will argue what they will and post false assumptions. We the People try out best to rummage through.
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Pete
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Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:35 am

Don't have at my fingertips but hear/read that there is something like $2.5-3.0B of funds in various "security" (or something) accounts that can be used for border security - physical or otherwise - w/o "national emergency" declaration.
I say use those for now - and not push for the military funds that do need the declaration.
With the $1.3B that was appropriated it totals some 70% of the $5.7B asked.
As before - I'm not a fan of the precedent of using the "national emergency" declaration in this manner.
Cheers, Pete
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